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	<title>Comments on: NYC primary breakdown and Latino angst</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2008/02/06/nyc-primary-breakdown-and-latino-angst/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2008/02/06/nyc-primary-breakdown-and-latino-angst/</link>
	<description>politics, media, culture and life from a queer boricua in brooklyn</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 13:51:39 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3</generator>
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		<title>By: Jack</title>
		<link>http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2008/02/06/nyc-primary-breakdown-and-latino-angst/#comment-47775</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2008 18:19:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2008/02/06/190#comment-47775</guid>
		<description>@k - I hear your frustration with internalized racism amongst Latinos. I hear the truth in what you're saying. I know that my own Puerto Rican family has that bias going on, that "pelo malo y pelo bueno" shit still in effect. And I most definitely agree that Latinos and Asians and all people of color in this country need to unite in solidarity rather than allow ourselves to be divided and pitted against each other, since the only people who truly benefit from that are ultimately the white folks at top of the pyramid of racial privilege.

But I also don't think it's good to generalize, because a) Latinos aren't a monolith, b) many Latinos are Black and acknowledge their Blackness, and c) its some really complicated shit that isn't well served by sweeping generalizations disconnected from some deeper analysis of what's at play. Like, my family - there's bias there, but there's also way more kinship and commonality with Black people and Black culture than with white folks. People in my family who have married people who aren't Latinos have married more Black folks than white folks by far. It's never cut and dry, and we do ourselves a major disservice by following the media in making it seem like it is.

I also don't think you can generalize Asian American attitudes around race and &lt;em&gt;definitely&lt;/em&gt; not label all Asians as sellouts, for the same reasons. Me, I'd be really hesitant of making that sort of blanket judgment about any group of people of color that I'm not myself a part of, since we've all got our own biases and internalized racism against people of other ethnicities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@k - I hear your frustration with internalized racism amongst Latinos. I hear the truth in what you&#8217;re saying. I know that my own Puerto Rican family has that bias going on, that &#8220;pelo malo y pelo bueno&#8221; shit still in effect. And I most definitely agree that Latinos and Asians and all people of color in this country need to unite in solidarity rather than allow ourselves to be divided and pitted against each other, since the only people who truly benefit from that are ultimately the white folks at top of the pyramid of racial privilege.</p>
<p>But I also don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s good to generalize, because a) Latinos aren&#8217;t a monolith, b) many Latinos are Black and acknowledge their Blackness, and c) its some really complicated shit that isn&#8217;t well served by sweeping generalizations disconnected from some deeper analysis of what&#8217;s at play. Like, my family - there&#8217;s bias there, but there&#8217;s also way more kinship and commonality with Black people and Black culture than with white folks. People in my family who have married people who aren&#8217;t Latinos have married more Black folks than white folks by far. It&#8217;s never cut and dry, and we do ourselves a major disservice by following the media in making it seem like it is.</p>
<p>I also don&#8217;t think you can generalize Asian American attitudes around race and <em>definitely</em> not label all Asians as sellouts, for the same reasons. Me, I&#8217;d be really hesitant of making that sort of blanket judgment about any group of people of color that I&#8217;m not myself a part of, since we&#8217;ve all got our own biases and internalized racism against people of other ethnicities.</p>
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		<title>By: Follow-up: Latino voting angst at AngryBrownButch</title>
		<link>http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2008/02/06/nyc-primary-breakdown-and-latino-angst/#comment-47626</link>
		<dc:creator>Follow-up: Latino voting angst at AngryBrownButch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Feb 2008 06:10:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2008/02/06/190#comment-47626</guid>
		<description>[...] &#171; NYC primary breakdown and Latino angst [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &laquo; NYC primary breakdown and Latino angst [...]</p>
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		<title>By: k</title>
		<link>http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2008/02/06/nyc-primary-breakdown-and-latino-angst/#comment-47536</link>
		<dc:creator>k</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2008 02:19:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2008/02/06/190#comment-47536</guid>
		<description>Look, lets be real.  We all know that as "Latinos" we have always put whites and whiteness on a pedestal  - its in our history. Most of us do anything  not to be associated with "blacks"  - and this includes generally speaking not voting for black candidates - even candidates who dont even walk around with their race on their sleeves...i.e. Obama.

We are sellouts.  On my college campus - the average asian chick would fall over themzselves trying to get with the wackest white boy you can imagine- Asians are sellouts - they want to be white and want white acceptance.

Most Latin people - especialy those with African bl0od  - Dominicans, Puerto Ricans  still have the "pello malo" nonsense going on in our culture. We are sellouts. When are we going to learn that our best hope for advancement in this society lies with hitching our wagon to blacks. They are the least racist towards us and the most likely to really accept us.  With whites we can only expect crumbs...i getting tired of this junk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Look, lets be real.  We all know that as &#8220;Latinos&#8221; we have always put whites and whiteness on a pedestal  - its in our history. Most of us do anything  not to be associated with &#8220;blacks&#8221;  - and this includes generally speaking not voting for black candidates - even candidates who dont even walk around with their race on their sleeves&#8230;i.e. Obama.</p>
<p>We are sellouts.  On my college campus - the average asian chick would fall over themzselves trying to get with the wackest white boy you can imagine- Asians are sellouts - they want to be white and want white acceptance.</p>
<p>Most Latin people - especialy those with African bl0od  - Dominicans, Puerto Ricans  still have the &#8220;pello malo&#8221; nonsense going on in our culture. We are sellouts. When are we going to learn that our best hope for advancement in this society lies with hitching our wagon to blacks. They are the least racist towards us and the most likely to really accept us.  With whites we can only expect crumbs&#8230;i getting tired of this junk.</p>
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		<title>By: coquito</title>
		<link>http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2008/02/06/nyc-primary-breakdown-and-latino-angst/#comment-47472</link>
		<dc:creator>coquito</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 21:20:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2008/02/06/190#comment-47472</guid>
		<description>Hey Jack,

   Pleasure to find your site (I think I found it through the NYTimes blogs, or maybe it was Brian Lehrer's WNYC page...). As for "coquito," it's been an online handle for awhile now. It's meant as kind of a double reference: to the coqui, which I'm sure I don't have to explain my irrational love for, and to the drink. I'm the one that makes the coquito in my family. Put up a recipe post around Christmas time and we can swap. ;)
   Thanks again for the blogging.

 -c.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Jack,</p>
<p>   Pleasure to find your site (I think I found it through the NYTimes blogs, or maybe it was Brian Lehrer&#8217;s WNYC page&#8230;). As for &#8220;coquito,&#8221; it&#8217;s been an online handle for awhile now. It&#8217;s meant as kind of a double reference: to the coqui, which I&#8217;m sure I don&#8217;t have to explain my irrational love for, and to the drink. I&#8217;m the one that makes the coquito in my family. Put up a recipe post around Christmas time and we can swap. <img src='http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />    Thanks again for the blogging.</p>
<p> -c.</p>
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		<title>By: Jack</title>
		<link>http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2008/02/06/nyc-primary-breakdown-and-latino-angst/#comment-47430</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 06:20:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2008/02/06/190#comment-47430</guid>
		<description>@timothy: Thanks for the link! I'm planning on writing a follow-up to this post tomorrow and will include a response to it.

@FreshEncounter: Glad you found the blog! (Give my thanks to your girl.) Happy 2008 to you to, and SI SE PUEDE!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@timothy: Thanks for the link! I&#8217;m planning on writing a follow-up to this post tomorrow and will include a response to it.</p>
<p>@FreshEncounter: Glad you found the blog! (Give my thanks to your girl.) Happy 2008 to you to, and SI SE PUEDE!</p>
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		<title>By: Jack</title>
		<link>http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2008/02/06/nyc-primary-breakdown-and-latino-angst/#comment-47429</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 06:19:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2008/02/06/190#comment-47429</guid>
		<description>@coquito: Love the handle, by the way. My mom makes a mean coquito. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@coquito: Love the handle, by the way. My mom makes a mean coquito. <img src='http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Jack</title>
		<link>http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2008/02/06/nyc-primary-breakdown-and-latino-angst/#comment-47428</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 06:18:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2008/02/06/190#comment-47428</guid>
		<description>@Erica and coquito: I do think familiarity has a whole lot to do with the way the Latino vote swayed. Not that he represents the entire weird amalgam that is "Latino," but when I spoke to my dad, it struck me that his primary reason for voting for Clinton was indeed familiarity. He said that he knows what Clinton has done but not what Obama has done. 

Thing is, though, why would the familiarity factor affect Latino voting more than the voting of other ethnic groups?

@Erica: Yay for our congressional district, and for Jews bucking the trend of Obama suspicion. I read a really interesting article the other day from Mother Jones entitled &lt;a href="http://www.ccun.org/Opinion Editorials/2008/February/4 o/Obama's Israel Shuffle By Justin Elliott.htm" rel="nofollow"&gt;Obama's Israel Shuffle"&lt;/a&gt; that talks about just that suspicion (of him being anti-Israel and thus "bad for Jews.") I was looking around to find out more about his stance on Palestine and Israel and was disappointed to see him taking such a pro-Israel stance, so it's funny to then read that he takes flack for not being pro-Israel enough! But after reading that article it does seem like if he wasn't so pro-Israel, he'd be screwed. Stuff like that makes me wonder whether he (and other candidates) are really pushing viewpoints that they believe in, or if they're simply playing the game that'll get them elected. I'm inclined to believe that it's more the latter than the former.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Erica and coquito: I do think familiarity has a whole lot to do with the way the Latino vote swayed. Not that he represents the entire weird amalgam that is &#8220;Latino,&#8221; but when I spoke to my dad, it struck me that his primary reason for voting for Clinton was indeed familiarity. He said that he knows what Clinton has done but not what Obama has done. </p>
<p>Thing is, though, why would the familiarity factor affect Latino voting more than the voting of other ethnic groups?</p>
<p>@Erica: Yay for our congressional district, and for Jews bucking the trend of Obama suspicion. I read a really interesting article the other day from Mother Jones entitled <a href="http://www.ccun.org/Opinion Editorials/2008/February/4 o/Obama's Israel Shuffle By Justin Elliott.htm" rel="nofollow">Obama&#8217;s Israel Shuffle&#8221;</a> that talks about just that suspicion (of him being anti-Israel and thus &#8220;bad for Jews.&#8221;) I was looking around to find out more about his stance on Palestine and Israel and was disappointed to see him taking such a pro-Israel stance, so it&#8217;s funny to then read that he takes flack for not being pro-Israel enough! But after reading that article it does seem like if he wasn&#8217;t so pro-Israel, he&#8217;d be screwed. Stuff like that makes me wonder whether he (and other candidates) are really pushing viewpoints that they believe in, or if they&#8217;re simply playing the game that&#8217;ll get them elected. I&#8217;m inclined to believe that it&#8217;s more the latter than the former.</p>
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		<title>By: Jack</title>
		<link>http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2008/02/06/nyc-primary-breakdown-and-latino-angst/#comment-47426</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 05:55:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2008/02/06/190#comment-47426</guid>
		<description>@Richard: Univision - that's a good point. I do remember reading about &lt;a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathan-gonzalez/is-univision-slanted-towa_b_83646.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;the channel's pro-Clinton bias.&lt;/a&gt;

Nice Obama graphics and t-shirts, by the way. I'll definitely print some out or pick some out if New Yorkers get to vote for him again come November (let's cross our fingers!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Richard: Univision - that&#8217;s a good point. I do remember reading about <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathan-gonzalez/is-univision-slanted-towa_b_83646.html" rel="nofollow">the channel&#8217;s pro-Clinton bias.</a></p>
<p>Nice Obama graphics and t-shirts, by the way. I&#8217;ll definitely print some out or pick some out if New Yorkers get to vote for him again come November (let&#8217;s cross our fingers!)</p>
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		<title>By: FreshEncounter</title>
		<link>http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2008/02/06/nyc-primary-breakdown-and-latino-angst/#comment-47409</link>
		<dc:creator>FreshEncounter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2008 22:58:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2008/02/06/190#comment-47409</guid>
		<description>I"m not angry but I do love to shout out the rant once and awhile. I'm a Butch Brown Bear in Oakland and I'm glad my girl pointed me to your site. 

Happy 2008.

YES WE CAN!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8221;m not angry but I do love to shout out the rant once and awhile. I&#8217;m a Butch Brown Bear in Oakland and I&#8217;m glad my girl pointed me to your site. </p>
<p>Happy 2008.</p>
<p>YES WE CAN!!!</p>
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		<title>By: timothy</title>
		<link>http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2008/02/06/nyc-primary-breakdown-and-latino-angst/#comment-47399</link>
		<dc:creator>timothy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2008 20:43:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2008/02/06/190#comment-47399</guid>
		<description>I liked this article by Jeff Chang about Obama/Clinton and the Latino &#38; Asian American vote:
http://www.cantstopwontstop.com/blog/2008/02/2g2k-circus-why-latinos-and-asian.cfm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I liked this article by Jeff Chang about Obama/Clinton and the Latino &amp; Asian American vote:<br />
<a href="http://www.cantstopwontstop.com/blog/2008/02/2g2k-circus-why-latinos-and-asian.cfm" rel="nofollow">http://www.cantstopwontstop.com/blog/2008/02/2g2k-circus-why-latinos-and-asian.cfm</a></p>
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