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	<title>Comments on: Hey white folks - it&#8217;s time to get really mad at me again!</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2007/02/27/hey-white-folks-its-time-to-get-really-mad-at-me-again/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2007/02/27/hey-white-folks-its-time-to-get-really-mad-at-me-again/</link>
	<description>politics, media, culture and life from a queer boricua in brooklyn</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 05:23:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Leigh-Anne</title>
		<link>http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2007/02/27/hey-white-folks-its-time-to-get-really-mad-at-me-again/#comment-50430</link>
		<dc:creator>Leigh-Anne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 15:08:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2007/02/27/139#comment-50430</guid>
		<description>Well done, Jack!!!

And yeah, the concept is simple: a primarily white middle and upper-class with the power and privilege to *choose* where they live invade and then wholly occupy a region that was once predominately poor and working-class (usually) people of color without the power and privilege to *choose* where they live -- folks who don't have the power to successfully resist being pushed out of the neighborhoods in which their ancestors resided. 

What is there to debate about that?

Why is it so difficult for so many middle and upper-class white folks to simply accept their complicity -- both voluntary and involuntary -- in the oppression of others? Right... their indulgences must be guilt-free... see, hear, nor speak evil...

What's interesting about gentrification is that it always starts, as you and some of your commentators point out, with the "slummers" -- middle &#38; upper-class white folks in search of illegal leisure activities and/or the "exotic," which (they perceive) people of color of being so good at providing. These poor neighborhoods of color were, in a sense, created by middle and upper class whites who demanded segregation -- a safe haven (i.e., suburb) in which to raise their children free of the vices they believe proliferate neighborhoods of color. So, the neighborhoods in which poor, law-abiding people of color live become sites for illegal gambling venues and prostitution (for example) because these poor folks do not have the power to stop these vice institutions from taking root and thriving in their neighborhoods.

Middle and upper-class white folks take the meaning of "don't shit where you eat" to heart when they leave their comfortable homes in the suburbs, albeit temporarily, to consume cheap, available and illegal sex, drugs -- whatever their hearts desire -- and once they've satiated their various appetites, they return to their homes... homes situated in what mainstream media tells us are morally pristine communities.

White "tourists" create these poor neighborhoods of color and white gentrifiers demolish them to establish permanent playgrounds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well done, Jack!!!</p>
<p>And yeah, the concept is simple: a primarily white middle and upper-class with the power and privilege to *choose* where they live invade and then wholly occupy a region that was once predominately poor and working-class (usually) people of color without the power and privilege to *choose* where they live &#8212; folks who don&#8217;t have the power to successfully resist being pushed out of the neighborhoods in which their ancestors resided. </p>
<p>What is there to debate about that?</p>
<p>Why is it so difficult for so many middle and upper-class white folks to simply accept their complicity &#8212; both voluntary and involuntary &#8212; in the oppression of others? Right&#8230; their indulgences must be guilt-free&#8230; see, hear, nor speak evil&#8230;</p>
<p>What&#8217;s interesting about gentrification is that it always starts, as you and some of your commentators point out, with the &#8220;slummers&#8221; &#8212; middle &amp; upper-class white folks in search of illegal leisure activities and/or the &#8220;exotic,&#8221; which (they perceive) people of color of being so good at providing. These poor neighborhoods of color were, in a sense, created by middle and upper class whites who demanded segregation &#8212; a safe haven (i.e., suburb) in which to raise their children free of the vices they believe proliferate neighborhoods of color. So, the neighborhoods in which poor, law-abiding people of color live become sites for illegal gambling venues and prostitution (for example) because these poor folks do not have the power to stop these vice institutions from taking root and thriving in their neighborhoods.</p>
<p>Middle and upper-class white folks take the meaning of &#8220;don&#8217;t shit where you eat&#8221; to heart when they leave their comfortable homes in the suburbs, albeit temporarily, to consume cheap, available and illegal sex, drugs &#8212; whatever their hearts desire &#8212; and once they&#8217;ve satiated their various appetites, they return to their homes&#8230; homes situated in what mainstream media tells us are morally pristine communities.</p>
<p>White &#8220;tourists&#8221; create these poor neighborhoods of color and white gentrifiers demolish them to establish permanent playgrounds.</p>
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		<title>By: pure0vodka</title>
		<link>http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2007/02/27/hey-white-folks-its-time-to-get-really-mad-at-me-again/#comment-50270</link>
		<dc:creator>pure0vodka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 18:32:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2007/02/27/139#comment-50270</guid>
		<description>In general I do agree with you about the whole 'you shouldn't be changing places because of the fact that richer people move there and fading out the low-incomes'. Def. a bad thing! However, it should be divided in rich and poor and NOT in white, black, hispanic, etc. I am a white girl: blonde, skinny and all the works. Do I have money? NO! Can I afford to live somewhere else than Harlem? NO! Sorry that this is a bother to fellow African-Americans! Sorry that damn Indians used to live here before Whitey OR Blacky! Times change... Harlem will be long remembered as a place for black communities, just as it will be remembered a long time for crime, even though that rate went down drastically, and I know/hope that the black community is feeling good about THAT change.
I try to ignore people that look at me weird or come up with dumb-ass comments when I go into a shop where the local black man runs the place... I can't afford a fancy cafe, so I have to go where I get "emotional abuse" - where I am looked at as the stuck-up whitey! It's no fun for me either... So, I am staying here because I have no choice for several reasons... BUT when I get a decent-paying job or when somebody feels like throw cashing at me I will not hesitate to move to upper-class as wouldnt any other race!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In general I do agree with you about the whole &#8216;you shouldn&#8217;t be changing places because of the fact that richer people move there and fading out the low-incomes&#8217;. Def. a bad thing! However, it should be divided in rich and poor and NOT in white, black, hispanic, etc. I am a white girl: blonde, skinny and all the works. Do I have money? NO! Can I afford to live somewhere else than Harlem? NO! Sorry that this is a bother to fellow African-Americans! Sorry that damn Indians used to live here before Whitey OR Blacky! Times change&#8230; Harlem will be long remembered as a place for black communities, just as it will be remembered a long time for crime, even though that rate went down drastically, and I know/hope that the black community is feeling good about THAT change.<br />
I try to ignore people that look at me weird or come up with dumb-ass comments when I go into a shop where the local black man runs the place&#8230; I can&#8217;t afford a fancy cafe, so I have to go where I get &#8220;emotional abuse&#8221; - where I am looked at as the stuck-up whitey! It&#8217;s no fun for me either&#8230; So, I am staying here because I have no choice for several reasons&#8230; BUT when I get a decent-paying job or when somebody feels like throw cashing at me I will not hesitate to move to upper-class as wouldnt any other race!</p>
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		<title>By: the black urban planner</title>
		<link>http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2007/02/27/hey-white-folks-its-time-to-get-really-mad-at-me-again/#comment-50208</link>
		<dc:creator>the black urban planner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 14:42:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2007/02/27/139#comment-50208</guid>
		<description>I see this ALL the time. Especially among other urban planners. Blacks and other minorities are not represented in planning and at the city meetings. And as the comment highlighted, the gentrifiers and planners think that these places are wastelands and that new people need to be brought into the neighborhood versus enhancing what is already there. It makes me sick as a planner and a black woman.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see this ALL the time. Especially among other urban planners. Blacks and other minorities are not represented in planning and at the city meetings. And as the comment highlighted, the gentrifiers and planners think that these places are wastelands and that new people need to be brought into the neighborhood versus enhancing what is already there. It makes me sick as a planner and a black woman.</p>
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		<title>By: Mari-Djata</title>
		<link>http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2007/02/27/hey-white-folks-its-time-to-get-really-mad-at-me-again/#comment-50149</link>
		<dc:creator>Mari-Djata</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 21:54:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2007/02/27/139#comment-50149</guid>
		<description>To me, it is not the problem that white people are moving into historically black cities where black culture and wealth has flourished --it is the fact that where ever white people go, they destroy the culture and wealth that other people have made. When white people leave from blackening cities, it is called white flight and this more or less destroys the city's ability to maintain schools and other necessities because a whole bloc of its inhabitants have just desserted a perfectly good city because of their own racist reasons. When the people who stay in the city, struggled through with the city, and loves the city returns the city back to something they can leave comfortably in, all of a sudden white people want to come back and change everything. It is not right.

Gentrification is not right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To me, it is not the problem that white people are moving into historically black cities where black culture and wealth has flourished &#8211;it is the fact that where ever white people go, they destroy the culture and wealth that other people have made. When white people leave from blackening cities, it is called white flight and this more or less destroys the city&#8217;s ability to maintain schools and other necessities because a whole bloc of its inhabitants have just desserted a perfectly good city because of their own racist reasons. When the people who stay in the city, struggled through with the city, and loves the city returns the city back to something they can leave comfortably in, all of a sudden white people want to come back and change everything. It is not right.</p>
<p>Gentrification is not right.</p>
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		<title>By: liz</title>
		<link>http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2007/02/27/hey-white-folks-its-time-to-get-really-mad-at-me-again/#comment-50143</link>
		<dc:creator>liz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 18:10:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2007/02/27/139#comment-50143</guid>
		<description>I've been having conversations about this in my classes at school. I am a white queer jewish girl. My family lives on the Upper East Side. The woman who raised me lives in Crown Heights. Her rent is going way up. I try to tell my friends who move to NYC out of college to live in Riverdale/Johnson avenue area. Don't move to SoBro! Stay away from Crown Heights! And Bushwick! Oy.

Anyway, in a class last semester, we learned about a few concepts that white christian europeans used when justifying colonialism starting in the 15th century. One is Terra Nullius, the idea that colonized lands are "no man's lands." Because the people are not Christian, they are not people. In addition, there was the idea of the ne plus ultra, or a point beyond which Christian peoples did not go past because it was considered too dangerous. I think both of these concepts can be directly applied, like what you're talking about. When there is an "economically depressed," largely black/brown neighborhood, I think white people tend to consider them to actually have no people there, as evidenced by such comments as, "Oh nobody lives there," or "that's a pocket of poverty." Also, there are many ne plus ultras. Living on the Upper East Side, it was up around 96th street. "Oh there's nothing up there," or it's SUPER dangerous past 96th street.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been having conversations about this in my classes at school. I am a white queer jewish girl. My family lives on the Upper East Side. The woman who raised me lives in Crown Heights. Her rent is going way up. I try to tell my friends who move to NYC out of college to live in Riverdale/Johnson avenue area. Don&#8217;t move to SoBro! Stay away from Crown Heights! And Bushwick! Oy.</p>
<p>Anyway, in a class last semester, we learned about a few concepts that white christian europeans used when justifying colonialism starting in the 15th century. One is Terra Nullius, the idea that colonized lands are &#8220;no man&#8217;s lands.&#8221; Because the people are not Christian, they are not people. In addition, there was the idea of the ne plus ultra, or a point beyond which Christian peoples did not go past because it was considered too dangerous. I think both of these concepts can be directly applied, like what you&#8217;re talking about. When there is an &#8220;economically depressed,&#8221; largely black/brown neighborhood, I think white people tend to consider them to actually have no people there, as evidenced by such comments as, &#8220;Oh nobody lives there,&#8221; or &#8220;that&#8217;s a pocket of poverty.&#8221; Also, there are many ne plus ultras. Living on the Upper East Side, it was up around 96th street. &#8220;Oh there&#8217;s nothing up there,&#8221; or it&#8217;s SUPER dangerous past 96th street.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Borden</title>
		<link>http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2007/02/27/hey-white-folks-its-time-to-get-really-mad-at-me-again/#comment-46172</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Borden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 13:58:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2007/02/27/139#comment-46172</guid>
		<description>new is not necessarily bad.  prices go up and down and that is the way it goes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>new is not necessarily bad.  prices go up and down and that is the way it goes.</p>
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		<title>By: Diane J Standiford</title>
		<link>http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2007/02/27/hey-white-folks-its-time-to-get-really-mad-at-me-again/#comment-44962</link>
		<dc:creator>Diane J Standiford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 05:59:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2007/02/27/139#comment-44962</guid>
		<description>No answers, just curious what white people are upset about now. Gee, wht would Harlem BE without white folks? Just ask Bill O'Really-Ahole. Gay guy has point, gays move into cheap rent, rundown area, jazz it up,, then str8 people move in and want us O U T. When is USA gonna get a clue? Shove us down, till we got something they want, then push us out and wear their super-hero speedo while doing it.
AngryWhiteButch</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No answers, just curious what white people are upset about now. Gee, wht would Harlem BE without white folks? Just ask Bill O&#8217;Really-Ahole. Gay guy has point, gays move into cheap rent, rundown area, jazz it up,, then str8 people move in and want us O U T. When is USA gonna get a clue? Shove us down, till we got something they want, then push us out and wear their super-hero speedo while doing it.<br />
AngryWhiteButch</p>
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		<title>By: mmjd</title>
		<link>http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2007/02/27/hey-white-folks-its-time-to-get-really-mad-at-me-again/#comment-41993</link>
		<dc:creator>mmjd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Dec 2007 07:04:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2007/02/27/139#comment-41993</guid>
		<description>The inherent assumption behind this post is that black people become less black if they move to the suburbs, and that white people have no right to live in the city.

Let's remember that these neighborhoods now being "colonized" by whites were probably occupied by whites as recently as 60 years ago.  Then came WWII, and the resulting migration of Southern blacks to the industrial North.  The 1950's and the growth of suburbs, resulted in urban ethnic whites leaving the cities in high numbers--a phenomenon now known as white flight.  The consequences of white flight were tremendous--cities lost their much of their property tax bases, their populations declined, and their middle classes were decimated.  Crime increased, main streets were boarded up, and blacks were increasingly left in segregated urban ghettos.

In the past few decades, an increasing percentage of black Americans are joining the middle class, and many are moving to the suburbs.  This is good.  Also, many whites are moving back to the cities, which is reducing crime, increasing the tax bases, and creating economic activity in urban areas.  Admittedly, these whites moving in are likely to be what you call "postmodern hipsters" and not families with children.  That's the next step.  But let's take what we can get.

Undeniably, we have further to go.  Far too many blacks stil live in poor, high-crime, segregated neighborhoods, and far too many whites live segregated from people of other backgrounds.  But the gentrification of the cities and the diversification of suburbs are part of the solution--not the problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The inherent assumption behind this post is that black people become less black if they move to the suburbs, and that white people have no right to live in the city.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s remember that these neighborhoods now being &#8220;colonized&#8221; by whites were probably occupied by whites as recently as 60 years ago.  Then came WWII, and the resulting migration of Southern blacks to the industrial North.  The 1950&#8217;s and the growth of suburbs, resulted in urban ethnic whites leaving the cities in high numbers&#8211;a phenomenon now known as white flight.  The consequences of white flight were tremendous&#8211;cities lost their much of their property tax bases, their populations declined, and their middle classes were decimated.  Crime increased, main streets were boarded up, and blacks were increasingly left in segregated urban ghettos.</p>
<p>In the past few decades, an increasing percentage of black Americans are joining the middle class, and many are moving to the suburbs.  This is good.  Also, many whites are moving back to the cities, which is reducing crime, increasing the tax bases, and creating economic activity in urban areas.  Admittedly, these whites moving in are likely to be what you call &#8220;postmodern hipsters&#8221; and not families with children.  That&#8217;s the next step.  But let&#8217;s take what we can get.</p>
<p>Undeniably, we have further to go.  Far too many blacks stil live in poor, high-crime, segregated neighborhoods, and far too many whites live segregated from people of other backgrounds.  But the gentrification of the cities and the diversification of suburbs are part of the solution&#8211;not the problem.</p>
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		<title>By: roxy rose</title>
		<link>http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2007/02/27/hey-white-folks-its-time-to-get-really-mad-at-me-again/#comment-41733</link>
		<dc:creator>roxy rose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 03:19:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2007/02/27/139#comment-41733</guid>
		<description>It's attitude, more than color or who was here first. It's the sense of entitlement of 'other people' moving into my neighborhood, and not giving a shit about the history that I've been part of for many years, that pisses me off.
 It's the self-serving behavior and the take over with outside money to fund the new gentrification. Don't stomp on my roots!
I agree that we must address affordable housing, poverty and saving our neighborhoods from greedy big slumlords, even more urgently.
I don't agree with the color thing,(black or white)  separation. Which color of people can live where and which color of people make that decision... oh yeah, who got there 1st?
As soon as you want to keep it all one color, one race, stay stuck in the past., you promote  racism, and ghetto-thinking/living, all over again.
Embrace and help to promote diversity!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s attitude, more than color or who was here first. It&#8217;s the sense of entitlement of &#8216;other people&#8217; moving into my neighborhood, and not giving a shit about the history that I&#8217;ve been part of for many years, that pisses me off.<br />
 It&#8217;s the self-serving behavior and the take over with outside money to fund the new gentrification. Don&#8217;t stomp on my roots!<br />
I agree that we must address affordable housing, poverty and saving our neighborhoods from greedy big slumlords, even more urgently.<br />
I don&#8217;t agree with the color thing,(black or white)  separation. Which color of people can live where and which color of people make that decision&#8230; oh yeah, who got there 1st?<br />
As soon as you want to keep it all one color, one race, stay stuck in the past., you promote  racism, and ghetto-thinking/living, all over again.<br />
Embrace and help to promote diversity!</p>
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		<title>By: M.S.</title>
		<link>http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2007/02/27/hey-white-folks-its-time-to-get-really-mad-at-me-again/#comment-39079</link>
		<dc:creator>M.S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 22:50:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.angrybrownbutch.com/2007/02/27/139#comment-39079</guid>
		<description>I'm a 24 year old queer white male living in Boston's south end and I struggle with this issue. 

What I struggle with, is how I as a white middle class male can fight the system that is causing gentrification. 

The South End of Boston has been gentrified for years, and the costs only keep going up. Most of the people of color left live in subsidised housing, and the war on drugs coupled witht he lack of jobs for youth is increasing the level of violence, and muggings in the neighborhood. 

Now as a young person who grew up on a mountain in an all whtie area that moved to Boston to go to college I had no idea about any of these issues. 

I think what we need to start doing, is less complaining and more problem solving, and ideas about solutions. 

Some of the things I do are: 
a. talk about racism and gentrification openly and honestly
b. work for and volunteer for solidly progressive/anti-racist non-profits
c. visit the neighborhood markets, laundromats, etc. that are run by  people of color who have lived in the neighborhood for a long time
d. speak up about affordable housing issues, write letters, attending neighborhood meetings, etc.
c. educate myself about socialism

In Boston, unfortunately, if you are young, middle class, and white- it doesn't matter what neighborhood you move into - you are either helping to gentrify it or it has been gentrified... So, I'd like to spark a discussion about what white anti-racist allies can do to help stop gentrification other than just not moving into neighorhoods that are mostly populated by people of color.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a 24 year old queer white male living in Boston&#8217;s south end and I struggle with this issue. </p>
<p>What I struggle with, is how I as a white middle class male can fight the system that is causing gentrification. </p>
<p>The South End of Boston has been gentrified for years, and the costs only keep going up. Most of the people of color left live in subsidised housing, and the war on drugs coupled witht he lack of jobs for youth is increasing the level of violence, and muggings in the neighborhood. </p>
<p>Now as a young person who grew up on a mountain in an all whtie area that moved to Boston to go to college I had no idea about any of these issues. </p>
<p>I think what we need to start doing, is less complaining and more problem solving, and ideas about solutions. </p>
<p>Some of the things I do are:<br />
a. talk about racism and gentrification openly and honestly<br />
b. work for and volunteer for solidly progressive/anti-racist non-profits<br />
c. visit the neighborhood markets, laundromats, etc. that are run by  people of color who have lived in the neighborhood for a long time<br />
d. speak up about affordable housing issues, write letters, attending neighborhood meetings, etc.<br />
c. educate myself about socialism</p>
<p>In Boston, unfortunately, if you are young, middle class, and white- it doesn&#8217;t matter what neighborhood you move into - you are either helping to gentrify it or it has been gentrified&#8230; So, I&#8217;d like to spark a discussion about what white anti-racist allies can do to help stop gentrification other than just not moving into neighorhoods that are mostly populated by people of color.</p>
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